Annuity Income Archives

Hybrid Annuities as an Inflation Hedge

April 13, 2013 By Annuity Guys®

Inflation – this one word strikes terror in the hearts of many retirees on a fixed income.

Never to fear, we have a cost of living adjustment (COLA) in Social Security to help save us — maybe not the more generous COLA that we have come to expect if the President and Congress decide they should balance a portion of the budget by restructuring the consumer price index (CPI) formula used to calculate increases in social security income.

Can annuities be used to hedge against depleted spending power in retirement? Certainly! Today’s hybrid annuities are bringing forth solutions for just that concern. Annuities developed by multiple insurance companies are now offering options to tie annuity income to inflation tracking indexes such as the CPI-U. This creates an additional option to other strategies used by advisors in the past such as laddering annuities.

Watch as Dick and Eric discuss the potential change in the CPI and what annuity strategies you might consider if inflation is a concern for you in retirement.

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**Guarantees, including optional benefits, are backed by the claims-paying ability of the issuer, and may contain limitations, including surrender charges, which may affect policy values. During this segment, Dick and Eric are referring to Fixed Annuities unless otherwise specified.

Check out this article from Walter Hickey on what the change in the CPI might mean for Social Security.

How Obama’s Plan For Chained CPI Is Both A Stealth Tax On The Middle Class And A Cut In Benefits For Grandma

Last week it was revealed that the President’s budget proposal will include a revision to the way the government calculates the impact of the rate of inflation as a concession to House Republicans.

Still, a switch to chained CPI from the current rate demonstrably cuts benefits to seniors and could be a stealth tax on primarily the middle class.

The Consumer Price Index (CPI) is used as a proxy for the annual cost of living adjustment used to keep federal benefits in line with inflation.

There are several different ways that economists calculate the Consumer Price Index, according to the AARP Public Policy Institute.

CPI-W is the current cost of living adjustment index for Social Security. It reflects the spending habits of households where the income comes from a wage earner.
CPI-U expands CPI-W to reflect the spending habits of the retired, professionals, the unemployed and self-employed as well as wage earners.
A new, experimental CPI-E looks exclusively at how the elderly spend their money.

“Chained CPI” refers to another adjustment, particularly to CPI-U.

As an example, CPI-U and CPI-W already incorporate people switching from Starbucks coffee to homemade when prices increase.

Chained CPI-U takes that a step further — the idea that when coffee gets more expensive, people switch to orange juice. It incorporates more switching.

When it comes down to it, Chained CPI-U spits out a lower rate of inflation than regular CPI-U, which already spits out a lower rate of inflation than the current CPI-W. As a result, were the government to switch the way they index cost of living adjustments to chained CPI-U from CPI-W, payouts to seniors would increase at a much slower rate.

This means that over time, seniors receiving Social Security see their benefits cut. [Read More at BusinessInsider.com]

Annuities – The Best Financial Product No One Wants!

September 7, 2012 By Annuity Guys®

Why would an insurance actuary call annuities the best financial product no one really wants? And why would he go on to say that in retirement he might not even purchase an annuity himself even when he knows they make good sense?

Dick and Eric discuss why individuals purchase annuities – even though they don’t want to…

Annuities: The best financial product no one really wants

“Annuities are not sexy. You hand over your money to an insurance company who then puts you on a seemingly stingy allowance for the rest of your life”

People who save through RRSPs have a choice to make when they retire. They can transfer their RRSP balance to an RRIF and draw it down at their own pace (subject to a minimum) or they can buy an annuity.

The simple fact is, an annuity may be a great idea, but hardly anyone buys one.

It is easy to blame low interest rates, which depress the amount of annuity income one can buy these days. But annuities were not in vogue even when interest rates were much higher a dozen years ago.
‘Let me be honest. When I retire, I am unlikely to buy an annuity myself, even though I’m an actuary and know all the advantages’

Economists have come to refer to this phenomenon as the “under-annuitization puzzle.”

Buying an annuity seems like an elegant solution since it removes the risk of outliving one’s assets (what actuaries like to call “longevity risk”), it eliminates the hassle of making investing decisions after retiring and the income stream it provides is super safe (it really is, at least in Canada). So why are they so unpopular?

In recent years, however, the economics of annuities have improved greatly. Annuities in Canada now generally return 95% to 100% of premiums paid. In fact, with the recent fall in long-term government bond yields, annuities now return more than 100% return of premiums paid in many cases. The economics, then, can no longer be blamed.

Another often-cited reason for not annuitizing is that the retiree wants to leave a large lump sum to a survivor in the case of early death. This argument, however, does not hold up on closer examination.
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Even when people have little or no interest in leaving assets behind for their heirs, they tend not buy annuities. Moreover, annuities can come with generous survivor income options, if one is prepared to pay for them. Another excuse shot down.

There are other explanations for this puzzle, including: The desire to have money on hand in retirement for a rainy day; the recognition that income needs might vary and the fixed income from an annuity might not match up well; and a reluctance to give up the chance to do better by investing in equities within a RRIF if stock markets do well.

Let me be honest. When I retire, I am unlikely to buy an annuity myself, even though I’m an actuary and know all the advantages.

I would be the first to admit this reaction is not entirely rational. The reason, plain and simple, is that annuities are not sexy. You hand over your money to an insurance company who then puts you on a seemingly stingy allowance for the rest of your life. [Read the Full Article from Fred Vettese at the Financial Post]

Annuity Guys® Video Transcript:

Eric: The topic is annuities. The best financial product no one really wants.

Dick: Can you imagine that no one would want an annuity, Eric? Is that a true statement?

Eric: No, the people I talk to every day, everybody wants an annuity.

Dick: But that’s different. Folks, the people that we talk to may be someone like yourself that’s actually went to our national website, as Eric likes to remind me, international website.

Eric: International website.

Dick: But goes to our website and they’re already in the mindset of annuities.

Eric: Right, they’re doing their research. They’re doing the background on why this might work for them.

Dick: So we might be just a little bit skewed, do you think?

Eric: We’re taking it based off an article, and interestingly enough, it was written by an actuary who works for an insurance company. His comment and I love this, “Annuities are not sexy. You hand over your money to an insurance company who then puts you on a seemingly stingy allowance for the rest of your life.” Well, that sounds pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

Dick: I do have to say that, before I knew much about annuities, many years ago that never entered my mind, never crossed my train of thought. Would I rather have a new car, a new house, or an annuity?

Eric: Rather than an annuity. That’s not fair. Everybody would rather have a new car or a new house.

Dick: That’s right, and really when you think about it, and that’s a lot what this article gets into is we built this money up. We accumulate this money and we like the idea of hanging onto it, controlling it, investing it, whatever we choose to do with our money, but to hand it over to an insurance company and let them give us money back, it’s kind of a transitional state that we go through to make these types of decisions, and there has to be a pretty good reason behind it.

Eric: I come from a family of educators. I’ve talked about that before.

Eric: You know right now in Illinois, we’re fighting. They’re fighting to maintain their pension. Well, what’s an annuity really?

Dick: It’s a pension-style income.

Eric: I mean for today’s 401k investors they’re basically, when you get your retirement you’ve got this lump sum. Do you want to keep the lump sum or would you rather have a pension?

Dick: The vast majority of retirees before they retire and they have this choice, not all companies give this choice; but there are a lot of corporations that will give the employee the choice of a lump sum or a pension. Now the vast majority choose the pension. They’ve worked their entire life.

Eric: For the seemingly stingy income for life?

Dick: Yeah, and yet, even those that would take the lump sum, in many cases will turn right around with that lump sum, and buy a commercial annuity that they feel is a better option, than maybe the pension the company was going to offer. So we tend to get it when it comes to that lump sum that comes from the employer, but yet many times we’ve worked all of our lives, built up all of this money and what’s the purpose of it?

Eric: It’s mine. I want to keep it.

Dick: What’s it supposed to accomplish?

Eric: That’s exactly it. It’s just future spending. It’s not savings. Its future spending is what we’ve save for, but we don’t think of it in those terms. We think of it as “This is money I saved. I don’t want to give it to somebody and then have them, give me a seemingly small allowance.”

Dick: Right, and that’s where the insurance company’s job, their job is to look at risk, to manage risk, to know what’s realistic. You’ll have to read this report, folks and kind of get the gist of what this person’s saying, because he actually is an actuary and he’s really laying out that these insurance companies don’t always win on this stuff.

Eric: And he talked about annuities are much better—the design and what they payout in today’s era, is much better than they were 10-20-30-years ago.

Dick: Right, a lot’s changed.

Eric: You really do have an actuarial advantage to buying an annuity and he admits that, even though I know this advantage exists, I’m not so sure.

Dick: I might be standoffish when I first retire, but maybe as my age advances I’m going to be more apt to do this. This kind of brings me back to a lot of the buzz that is out there and things we talk about with the hybrid annuity but one of the things that appeals so much to folks, on a hybrid-style annuity is that they are able to control that lump sum. What we call majority control the first 10-years or so of an annuity. You have some surrender charges, so you control about 90% of it during that first 10 years, and those surrender charges decline, so after 10 years, you control 100% of it and you still have a lifetime income. And yet, if you haven’t used that money in your account, it can all go on to your heirs, your spouse, whatever is important to you.

Eric: Exactly. In his life point, I guess in summation here he talks about you know what? Everybody has, even if you have that lump sum investment you have, usually a portion that’s in equities and you have a portion as you get closer to retirement that we should all be moving into those fixed payments, bonds, CD-style. What would be wrong with taking those more conservative assets, turning that into an annuity and then just truly letting your equities run, and knowing you have that **guarantee that income coming on?

Dick: Well, Eric obviously this is what we talk to our clients about. We talk to them about balanced allocation. Not putting everything into annuities, not necessarily having everything in the market. Finding that balance that works for each individual, and so to me, he’s right along the lines of what we continue to explain to people.

Eric: Exactly, yes. He takes care of the foundation very well.

Dick: So Eric, would you say that an annuity is something that no one wants?

Eric: All right, there are a few people that want annuities.

Dick: Well, folks we’re not saying that an annuity is going to be the end-all and the be-all or exactly what you need, but you do want to look at it closely and determine where it might fit into your overall financial picture. We really appreciate you spending the time with us, today.

Eric: You have a great afternoon.

Understanding Immediate Annuities

March 22, 2012 By Annuity Guys®

Today, people are living longer than ever before. While the idea of living a longer (and hopefully healthier) life is appealing to most of us, the tradeoff for many people is the fear of outliving their retirement savings.

On top of that, the immense costs of healthcare today––along with constantly rising inflation––continue to compound an already stressful situation for many. However, there is an option available to retirees that can help ease the stress of outliving their savings while providing them with an income stream almost immediately upon funding it. That financial vehicle is an immediate annuity.

While many annuities are created to build up the account value for retirement, an immediate annuity is actually designed to provide income immediately to its holder.

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Immediate annuities are insurance products that pay their owners a regular income––monthly, quarterly, or over another desired time frame––for as long as the annuity holder lives.

These products are essentially a contract between the annuity owner and an insurance company. They are typically purchased with a large cash lump sum by retirees in order to pay living expenses in a reliable pension style INCOME over a long period of time. In exchange for this lump sum deposit, the insurance company will provide them with a regular income for a specified time OR long as they live, regardless of how long that may be.

Plus, if it is a lifetime annuity, this benefit will continue for as long as the single or joint annuitant is living. Therefore, an immediate annuity actually pays for living a long life instead of the emphasis being on heirs receiving a large payout when the immediate annuity owner dies. It is possible for the immediate annuity owner’s heirs to receive some of the deceased owners intended income if he or she should die prematurely.

Immediate Annuity Features

Throughout the years, there have been some modifications to the original immediate annuity design. Many of these annuity features, which may or may not be available on all immediate annuities, or offered by all insurance companies, are discussed below:

Inflation protection: With this option, the immediate annuity income payments offer some form of a hedge against inflation. Here, the annuity owner may choose to have his or her income payments increase by a certain percentage each year, typically around 3 percent. Another choice may be to have the annuity income payments actually tied to an inflation rate by the use of a consumer price index. When this option is chosen the initial payout of the annuity starts lower.

Refund, liquidity, and withdrawal options: The traditional refund feature on immediate annuities has typically been either a cash refund or an installment refund that ensures after the annuity holder’s death that the beneficiary will receive an amount of money that represents the difference between the initial deposit amount and the amount of the income payments that the annuitant received during his or her life. This, however, reduces the amount of the systematic payout when comparing to life only with no beneficiary benefit.

There are several different ways to structure an immediate annuity with regard to the income payment options. These options include:

Life only: A life-only immediate annuity can also be referred to as a straight life annuity. This means that the annuitant will receive annuity income payments for the rest of his or her life, regardless of how long that duration may be. The payments will cease and all of the unused initial premium will be to the insurance company’s benefit or detriment based upon the annuitant’s actual death and life expectancy underwriting calculations.

Certain period: This structure is not considered to be a life annuity. Rather, the annuity payments will only go on for a fixed period of time, such as for ten years. Even if the annuitant is still living at the end of the stated time period, the annuity payments will cease at that time. However, should the annuitant pass away within that time period, the beneficiary will continue to receive the payments until the period of time has expired.

Life with period certain (or certain and life): This type of immediate annuity payment structure is a combination of both the life and the certain period structures, meaning the annuity will pay income benefits to the annuitant for as long as he or she lives. However, if the annuitant passes away during a specified period of time, say ten years, then the beneficiary will continue to receive income payments from the annuity until the end of that ten-year time period.

Life with cash refund: This can be considered a money-back **guarantee annuity. The income benefit payout is for life. However, if the annuitant passes away before the payments that total at least the amount of premium paid, then a lump sum payment is made to the annuitant’s beneficiary.

Life with installment refund: This, too, can be considered a money-back **guarantee annuity. This immediate annuity payout option is similar to the life with cash refund option, except the annuitant’s beneficiary will continue to receive the monthly annuity income instead of a lump sum until the full amount of the premium has been paid out.

Joint and survivor: This annuity income payout option will **guarantee that the income payments will continue for the lives of both annuitants. Along with this, period certain options can also be added. This particular payout option is typically used with married couples in order to provide income as long as either one of them is still alive. In some instances, the income benefit may drop when the first spouse passes away.

COLA SPIA: This annuity income payout structure has payments that increase or decrease by a floating percentage which fluctuates when tied to a consumer price index, each year. In this case, however, the initial income benefit will likely be lower than those that are non-COLA (cost of living adjustment) annuities.

Annuity Guys® Video Transcript:

Dick: Today, we want to talk about immediate annuities and do a little comparison with immediate annuities and why you might consider an immediate annuity.

Eric: One of the things we often hear, in today’s world, where you have this hybrid annuity, which gives you lifetime income as well as some other bonuses/extras, why would you ever want to actually look at using an immediate annuity, where you’re going to give up your assets?

Dick: Right. That is the difference, Eric. When we think about the hybrid annuity, it’s kind of your cake and eat it too annuity, where you can get your lifetime income, but you don’t have to give up your asset. Yet, there is a place for an immediate annuity.

In fact, let’s do a little history lesson. How about some trivia here? When we think about an immediate annuity, it literally goes back to the early Roman Empire. They called it the “annua,” and that’s where the word annuity comes from. So it is a very early form of an annuity, and it has really gone through the test of time, spanned the centuries.

Eric: So next time you have your toga on, you’ll know to get your annua language out. Exactly. It’s an old standard. It was the first kind of annuity out there, the standard lifetime annuity. You gave up a lump sum, and you got a lifetime income stream.

Dick: It is probably the truest pension-style income. In fact, immediate annuities, a lot of companies will offer a choice of a lump some or an immediate annuity.

Eric: I talked about immediate annuities with a lot of clients, when they were saying, “Hey, I’ve got a 401(k). I want a lifetime income. What can I do to get my own personal pension?” That’s kind of how we think of it. The thing is you’re usually giving up that 401(k) in exchange for that lifetime income stream. Now, the big thing here is you realize that none of those dollars are going on to heirs.

Dick: Yes. Well, in a true pension, there’s no money in a pension, as a rule. When you have a pension, when you pass, the money ends, or if you’ve chosen a survivorship option, you’ve probably taken a little bit lower payment on your pension, and then some of those payments will go on to perhaps a spouse.

Eric: Exactly. When I grew up, my parents were educators. So they had a traditional kind of benefit program, where they have a retirement that’s there as long as they live. The bad thing is, once they’re gone, nothing goes on to me. Being a little self-serving here now. The 401(k) plan . . .

Dick: Why didn’t they get a hybrid annuity?

Eric: Exactly. Why can’t they get a hybrid annuity? So when they’re looking at it, that’s the old style. The hybrid, on the other hand, allows you to pass some of those dollars on to heirs typically.

Dick: Right. So, really, where the immediate annuity fits, let’s just give some examples. Someone who really wants to start income right now.

Eric: With an traditional immediate annuity, typically you’re going to get a higher payout than you would with a hybrid. You’re going to start with a little bit higher. . .

Dick: Typically. But we have seen a few instances where . . . you’ve got to run some illustrations to know.

Eric: Exactly. So that’s one of the things that when people are going that direction, that’s usually the reason.

Dick: General assumption is you’re going to get more income.

Eric: A little bit more. A higher percentage to start with.

Dick: Right. Then the other key factor would be that, perhaps, if you’re going to use an immediate, you really aren’t as concerned about giving money over to heirs.

Eric: Right. Are there ways to get money on to either survivors or heirs? That’s one of the things we . . .

Dick: With an immediate?

Eric: An immediate annuity. You can structure it so that it’s a joint lifetime payout. So if you and a spouse purchase an immediate annuity, you can set it up so that it is the lifetime of both of you or either of you. Whoever lives the longest, those payments will continue. There are little tweaks that you can even do there, where you can set it up so that once one passes, it sometimes reduces by a percentage.

Dick: A percentage, so they only get three-quarters or one half of the annuity.

Eric: Right. The other way that you can somewhat pass on dollars to heirs is there are a couple of things. You can do a period certain, where it’s lifetime with a certain number of years **guaranteed. A lot of times you’ll see somebody do a lifetime annuity with 20 years **guaranteed. So that 20 years of payments is **guaranteed.

Dick: So if I pass in 5 years, somebody is going to get another 15 years of payments. But what does that do to my income?

Eric: It’s going to reduce your payments. You have to realize going in, if your goal is the highest payout possible, you don’t want to add any of these other pieces. But if you’re wanting to try to pass on money to somebody, that’s a way of **guaranteeing basically that some of that comes back. One of the things I always look at is either the installment refund or the cash refund, which says once you purchase the immediate annuity, if you haven’t gotten back at least what you paid in principal wise, that amount will be refunded either to your heirs or to your estate.

Dick: Well, isn’t that the installment refund?

Eric: The installment refund keeps the payments coming back to your return of principal.

Dick: Okay. So you’re talking about the full lump sum.

Eric: Yes, just a refund of whatever you’ve put in, so it’s either a lump sum or installment refund.

Dick: One of the biggest vulnerabilities that Eric and I look at with our clients, and what we think you should be concerned about, is inflation. That is probably one of the biggest vulnerabilities we face. We have had historic inflation the last 4 decades of over 4%. We believe that the stage is really set for some higher inflation over the next two or three decades, which is going to cover most retirees. So if we would happen to go through a stretch of 4% or 5% – I’m not talking about runaway hyper third world country inflation – but if we’re talking 4%, 4.5%, 5%, 6% inflation, that makes that immediate annuity, if you have no inflation cost of living adjustment, a COLA on it, it really puts you at a disadvantage.

Eric: Yes, especially if you’ve got longevity in what you’re looking at. You realize you’re taking a level payment and you’re stretching it over your lifetime. So your purchasing power is going to diminish with inflation.

Dick: Right. So one of the things that we do suggest, very strongly, is that whatever type of annuity, whether it’s an immediate annuity, a hybrid annuity, a deferred annuity where you’re deferring it for a long time, that you’re really taking inflation into account. There are different ways to structure for inflation, but if you’re not taking it into account, you’re really setting yourself up for a bad situation.

Eric: Right. That’s another aspect that you can add to an immediate annuity. Some of them you can add a cost of living adjustment. Others have a fixed percentage.

Dick: Tied to a consumer price index or a fixed percentage.

Eric: So those are things you can add, but you realize you’re going to start lower.

Dick: Your payments are going to start lower. Right.

Eric: So it’s all about the tradeoffs.

Dick: I love the idea of a real cost of living adjustment. So if things get carried away and we start seeing 5% or 6% inflation, we’ve covered a major vulnerability in a retirement plan.

Eric: Yes. That’s what we’re looking at here. When we’re looking at immediate annuities, we’re looking at you creating your own personal pension.

Dick: Yes, that’s right.

Eric: If you’re into this marketplace, where you’re going to create a personal pension, and you have that magic number you know that you need to hit and you can anticipate the growth, that’s where this product really comes in.

Dick: So if we’re to kind of wind up this discussion on immediate annuities, being a true pension-style income, where would we summarize that this is going to fit? What type of person should buy an immediate annuity, should really consider it for their retirement portfolio?

Eric: I always say it’s someone with no heirs, that doesn’t have to worry about passing on dollars to somebody in the future. They’re not worried about that. They want the highest payout now, and that’s really the person that I start with.

Dick: Right. I think that, in winding this up, we just want to say, do a fair comparison. You may be the ideal person for an immediate annuity, but get with a professional advisor, run some illustrations, compare it. We have actually seen situations where a hybrid annuity can right off the bat outperform an immediate annuity. It’s not often, but it does happen.

Eric: Yes. Very good.

Dick: Thank you.

What are Hybrid Annuities?

December 16, 2011 By Annuity Guys®

Hybrid annuities, also referred to as hybrid income annuities, are essentially a type of annuity contract that allows the account owner to tie the growth of his or her assets into market benchmark (i.e. Dow Jones IA, S&P 500, NASDAQ 100), with an income rider or riders.

On the most basic level, a hybrid annuity is a fixed index annuity with an income rider attached to it.

Hybrid annuities can help to resolve the concerns of retirement income by offering **guaranteed annuity rates for growth on annuity income accounts. They also such as long-term care funding––while still providing one with a regular income. These annuities have the potential to solve several types of needs in retirement.

A hybrid annuity essentially works the same way that a regular annuity does, in that making an allocation begins by choosing the hybrid annuity that meets key retirement objectives and then funding the hybrid annuity contract with a licensed agent is the final step.

Dick and Eric look at the Hybrid Annuity in this short video explanation.

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Annuity Guys® Video Transcript:

Dick: And folks as you can see at this point, we’re going to go into one more type of annuity here, which is really no annuity at all. It’s a combination of all the above, but as you can see, every annuity has so many different aspects and there are good aspects to each annuity that you really want to think this through.

You want to put some real thought into it. You want to work with an expert that can help you think through all of the variables, and the possibilities and really zero in on, what really is going to work best for you, what’s going to be most suitable. And maybe, as Eric said earlier, it’s no annuity at all.

However, annuities do answer some important questions to secure retirement, securing retirement income and one of the things that we want to talk about here, to just kind of wind it up is something that you’ll find terms over the internet and different ones that are talking about it, and that is a hybrid annuity, and what is different about a hybrid annuity? Eric, I’ve been talking here again. I’m getting you starting on everything. Go ahead let’s start off on a hybrid.

Eric: The hybrid annuity and again, we’re building here so you’ve got your fixed index chassis. Now when you start adding income riders onto a fixed annuity. . .

Dick: Right. And I think that’s, I just want to kind of zero in on that point you made, and that is that it is a fixed annuity. So first of all, we’ve got safety. It’s a fixed annuity then it’s indexed, so we add the indexing option.

Eric: That’s one of the options. You can also take that **guaranteed number. . .

Dick: Just a fixed…

Eric: … is just a fixed return. So those are all pieces, it’s that fixed annuity chassis, and then you’re going to add on top of it, usually the key component is the income rider. So we’re adding an income rider which gives us some of that immediate annuity flavor.

Dick: An income rider **guarantees.

Eric: Right, so what’s the one thing we love about an immediate annuity? It’s that income **guaranteed for life. Now wouldn’t we like to get that for life, without having to give up the lump sum?

Dick: Yes.

Eric: And that’s where the hybrid comes in. It’s that contractual income for life **guarantee, but without having to give up access to the whole.

Dick: Eric, and in our experience and I’m just going to throw the question to you. I could answer it, but in our experience how close can we come with the hybrid annuity, to matching the income of an immediate annuity, where we’re **guaranteeing it for life.

Eric: We come very close typically. There’s usually a couple percentage points difference. Where that fudge factor comes in per se is how long is it going to be in deferral? How long are you going to live?

Dick: What’s the age of the person?

Eric: Right, there are unknown variables that come into play, but the nice thing is we are able to **guarantee, typically a lifetime income higher than you would get, if you just left your money in liquid assets…

Dick: Oh, absolutely

Eric: … that you pulled out, because with a degree of certainty with an annuity you’re going to get that lifetime income. With the liquid assets you have to kind of take the ups and downs of the market and have that little bit more uncertainty. So this income rider…

Dick: You don’t have the contractual **guarantees that the annuity will give.

Eric: … will still give you access to the cash, the majority of your cash. I would say is probably the best way to think of it, with also using those life terms.

Dick: And that’s what I kind of say, is having your cake and eating it too, because with the hybrid style of annuity you can not only **guarantee income for life, but you can pass a lot of money on to the next generation to your heirs, if you haven’t used the money all for your income. And that depends on how long you live, and how much money that you actually take out of the annuity, where with an immediate annuity you’re going to leave very little, if any to the next generation. With the hybrid annuity you could leave the majority of it depending on life expectancy and that type of thing and you can still **guarantee your income for life. So if you happen to live a long life, now it is true if you use all of that money up, because you live a long time, then you really aren’t going to have—your income is going to continue as long as you live.

Eric: It’s an annuity, long time income.

Dick: But you won’t pass money on, because you’ve used it up.

Eric: If you spend all your money, if you drained all your savings accounts, in this case if you drained the annuity of the cash they will still pay you that income for life or whatever that contractual **guarantee amount was. Now you will not have anything to pass on to heirs, if you live long enough.

Dick: And you spend it, but they’re income will continue.

Eric: And that’s the best **guarantee you could have. You won’t out

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